Commerzbank credit card - does it charge foreign fees for PP payments?

Day together

I was bored because of Corona and therefore I looked at my CoBa KK bills and account statements. I have the account which is free from 1.200 euro incoming money and the gray classic credit card.

Since PayPal has been denying me direct debit for a few months for unknown reasons (I've never had a return debit due to insufficient funds or something) and I always buy via PayPal, I got the card from Commerzbank. I use it to pay for everything. On Amazon (directly with the card), my grocery purchases, other e-commerce. And: My two Twitch subscriptions (each 4.99 euro per month) via PayPal, whereby I tend to use the GIrocard in the store and at the ATM

Well, I noticed: Commerzbank charged me 0.08 euro foreign fees every month. Since I've had two Twitch subscriptions, twice that. I called my CoBa branch yesterday and asked where the fee was coming from. I haven't been abroad for 3 years and only buy in German or EU shops. Answer from Commerzbank: Two times 4.99 euro are debited from the USA every month, hence the 1.75% foreign currency fee. When asked whether these are my two subscriptions, they said: You should know. Then I said I had never been to the US and I wouldn't buy any goods there. The aunt became unfriendly and said the fee was legal.

I checked: I have exactly two sales per month on which the fees would fit: The Twitch subscriptions.

I called again and asked for an explanation. I often shop with PayPal and there's never a fee, only for Twitch subscriptions. A rather friendly gentleman said that it was because PayPal was debiting from the USA, but he didn't really have a clue, especially when I asked him why fees are then only due for these two bookings.

Is that right? I don't understand this fee and I'm frankly angry. I already pay enough fees for the credit card! I'm going to completely change banks now, I plan to. With VISA / Mastercard credit or debit card. Does anyone have any recommendations? And why is Commerzbank doing that?

Why Commerzbank does this is not clear to me. I also have a Twitch subscription, ING did not charge a fee if PayPal debited it.
That shouldn't be right. You pay your 4.99 euro for your Twitch subscription via PayPal in €, PayPal debits 4.99 euro from your KK. How are you supposed to add 1.75% foreign / foreign currency fee?

But at the Commscherzbank (that's what I call the bank) I'm no longer surprised. According to various reports in Internet forums, they also simply cancel the current account. They have already sent me a final statement and charged me 0.80 euro for it when I terminated the account. Strange: The last transaction wasn't on the bank statement, just the 0.80 euro from my new bank account, without permission. A rogue who thinks bad about it.

Call Commerzbank again and claim the fee back. PayPal always debits from Germany, Amazon from Luxembourg and Google (Google Play for example) from Ireland with the name "Google Shuligi"

If you are looking for a new bank: Raiffeisenbank i'm Hochtaunus would be an alternative. I'm there too and am satisfied. Mastercard Debit and Girocard included free of charge, account also free of charge. 1% fee when using foreign currency is humane. They also have a credit card (but costs a few euro a year). If you don't want to pay any fees, a Barclaycard or Hanseatic Genialcard wouldn't be bad.
Otherwise: One of the usual candidates like ING, DKB, Consors or 1822direkt (belongs to Frankfurter Sparkasse)
PSD Bank Nürnberg also offers a free current account with a credit card.
As you can see: There are enough alternatives to Commerzbank.

Yes that's all in your contract. The woman has already explained this to you.

He pays from his bank into a Paypal account in the USA.

his PayPal does not allow this direct debit

You read the question correctly: The TE wrote accordingly: The fee can only be for Twitch subscriptions, it is 4.99 euro per month (x2) from PayPal from his Commerzbank KK.

I think it's bold to charge foreign fees for this. So you would have to pay fees for PayPal payments for every Amazon purchase (since Amazon and PayPal are based in the USA)

As I just said, he transfers money abroad. And not on his PayPal account, which belongs to the Luxembourg PayPal subsidiary, but in the USA to California or Nebraska

He wrote: He pays with his Commerzbank credit card. Not by direct debit, as PayPal apparently refuses to do so (happens more and more often)
PayPal is located in the USA should be clear to everyone, but whether you have to pay foreign transaction fees when you pay with PayPal. I would only be interested in what PayPal says about that…

There's also PayPal in Europe (subsidiary), otherwise the European company could not offer it at all due to the high transaction costs (which fall on the end customer)

StefanBraun159 is right. I'm not transferring money. The money will be debited from my Commerzbank credit card. In €!

And since when have international fees become due for € payments in the € area. The contract states: 1.75% foreign currency surcharge for payments in foreign currency. Logical right? And I live in Germany, my PayPal account is assigned to my GERMAN address!

When I shop at Amazon, the CoBa doesn't charge a fee, but they are also from the USA.

Thanks for the tips on new accounts. I snapped briefly, I'm attracted to the Raiffeisenbank in the Hochtaunus (do they also take customers from Lower Saxony? And the 1822direkt is not bad either. Withdrawing money at all Volksbank or Sparkasse ATMs, that sounds very good!

Back to the credit card business: I understand you correctly: Google debits you from Ireland when you buy something in an app via Google Play and PayPal debits Google Schuligi "what that name? And there are no fees? Irrland is also not Germany?

I checked again. This GE fee was not charged for other PayPal payments, neither for Amazon payments. Funny. It doesn't seem to have a system, at first I thought that Commerzbank would collect the fee based on where the dealer is headquartered.
But then there would have to be a fee for every payment, which is submitted to Amazon, PayPal or Google. Even if I pay by card at the Mäcces, the fee has to be charged.
But I checked it myself, that doesn't seem to be the case and Commerzbank would be the only one.
Is it a system error at Commerzbank that, for whatever reason, it sees a foreign payment with PayPal and Twitch? And then charges fees?
And that those on the phone have no idea?

Do I get these fees back without a basis?

Look at paypal the amount is in dollars

and the money is simply converted directly into dollars by your bank in dollars, since it still goes to the usa

That it's a system flaw… I don't think so. Although I have a lot of confidence in Commerzbank. Maybe raise the fees and gamble that the stupid customer doesn't check that?

And yes, the Raiffeisenbank in Hochtaunus accepts customers nationwide, at least for its online account. I live in Bavaria and got an account there without any problems. DKB and ING even allow withdrawals at ALL ATMs with the VISA card. DKB is even without foreign currency fees for active customers.
The direct debits from PayPal are always made as follows: PayPal * (merchant name)
Since the space there's also limited, strange names come out. E.g. DHL Onlinefrank, Twitch Interact or the aforementioned Google Shuligi

Getting the fees back shouldn't be a legal problem. You have had PayPal debited in € from your Commerzbank credit card. Commerzbank doesn't have to charge a foreign currency fee! Most banks do not charge any € payments (even if you are in the USA and have your card debited in €), only Commerzbank also charges foreign currency fees in € at DCC, but that is legal.
But for internet payments in € with PayPal: Not legal!

But be prepared for Commerzbank not wanting to reimburse the fees, at least not without a lot of correspondence. If it's only 1-2 euro, leave it! The postage alone to request Commerzbank in writing (as registered mail, otherwise they'll say afterwards: We haven't received anything) costs more than the amount in dispute.
Just Commscherzbank.

From euro to dollar I meant *

be glad that Paypal doesn't do it because the fees are higher.

What are you talking about? No, there are only € amounts everywhere, I'm not a blind chicken! I may be blonde, but I'm not that stupid either! It's definitely a € amount, even Twitch says: 4.99 euro per month and not dollars.

If you think it is quite illegal to transfer euro to the USA and they should then pay the exchange rate fluctuations as well as the conversion fees, but if you think (what a generous company)

Thank you… Have you ever had a Commerzbank account and incidents like that or why do you keep writing to Commscherzbank and saying "I have a lot of confidence in the bank"?
Do you really think that such a big bank is trying to secretly steal fees from its customers? They are already expensive enough anyway. If my salary comes a few days later, I have to pay 9.90 euro account management fees! And the credit card also costs 40 euro a year.

Since I haven't had the card long, it's just over 0.50 euro. You're right, the postage costs more.

Then I go to the DKB, they also have a VISA credit card on offer.

You are definitely mistaken. Then money would have to be converted into Määces or Amazon with every purchase and these fees would have to be incurred every time. In addition, an old friend of mine is at the "hated fun fund", the card costs a lot of fees, but he never deducted fees from the Twitch subscriptions (he also pays via PayPal!), NEVER!

Just Commerzbank! 9.90 euro for a purely online account per month with little money received. Even the branch account costs only 4.90 euro per month! If it said: Free entry from 1,200 euro, including 3 euro, it would be ok. And now to tell you all about my time with the Commscherzbank would take too long

And you won't make a mistake with the DKB! The account is free, no matter how much salary is received. From 700 euro receipt of money (it does not have to be a salary) there are also active customer benefits. But you can read everything at the DKB.

Amazon has a seat in Ireland and therefore in Europe and the money does not get to the USA or not through the end customer and McDonalds is a franchise company with mostly German entrepreneurs who even have their headquarters on site

Just because twitch belongs to Amazon does not mean that it has the same rights as the European Amazon - because this is either a subsidiary or something else

Aso and probably to your buddy he just didn't send the money abroad but to Europe

The foreign currency fee is a fee for exchange. So from one currency to another. If Twitch debits in US $ and your KK Bank converts that into €, then many take a fee for it.
1.75% is even a standard value. But there are also KK providers who do not take foreign currency fees. But they are usually from abroad and not in Germany.
This is important to me because I actually shop online in foreign currencies more often.
Advanzia's KK (based in Luxembourg) and the black Barclaycard (based in Ireland) are free of charge and have no fees for foreign assignments or foreign currency payments.

For you, however, it sounds like the bill from Twitch is already in euro. From where it is debited usually does not matter. Fees for a foreign assignment would be different from the foreign currency fee. Although I think that a foreign transaction fee is intended for when you personally use the card offline abroad.

Since the quality of the service (in general) has decreased even more since Corona, I would no longer address it by phone, but by email. We also ask you to send you a precise definition of the fee. If the support is so sloppy again, then use the email from the imprint for your request.

The next point is, if you pay via Paypal it is also Paypal which book from your card. Check PayPal if you have set that payments via the KK are sent directly to the KK and not via PayPal. I've set it up so that I don't have to pay PayPal's nasty exchange fee, my KK doesn't charge anything, PayPal does.

That doesn't make sense with euro to euro, but it might help with you.

I checked: PayPal's charge is 4.99 euro. Can be seen both in the transaction overview and in the PayPal mail. I can't remember that Twitch has ever debited subscriptions for DE customers in a currency other than €.
And: I know that PayPal's exchange rates are terribly bad. And that Commerzbank also uses its own, even terribly bad, exchange rates.

I can see what it all comes down to: I will turn my back on Commerzbank in the overall package and switch to the DKB, where there are no foreign currency fees from 700 euro receipt of salary per month and this card gets by without these rip-off functions with the usurious interest. Will write an email. Is the definition below ok? And that's also true with the 0.08 euro, I rarely buy anything under 10 euro with PayPal (except, for example, the said Twitch subscriptions or from time to time a stamp in the Internet post shop)

"Dear Ladies and Gentlemen,

on [here I enter the times when the fee was charged] they each charged me 0.08 euro fee for foreign assignments. After a thorough check of my account statements, this fee can only have been charged for the following transactions: [Here I then state the name of the debit]
However, the payment was made in €, I checked this several times.
Please explain to me why you charged this fee and the legal basis on which you charged this fee for a PayPal payment with a German PayPal account. "

I'm really disappointed with Commerzbank. Thought it was a good bank. Free giro when paying, credit card for 40 euro. If I had decided on a Giro at the DKB, then I would not have this whole circus now. Not even Sparkassen are so cheeky (have a buddy, he has a Sparkassen credit card and pays via PayPal and Twtich subscriptions, they also have a 1.75% foreign currency fee, he was never charged anything)

The thing has one positive aspect: I'm a little smarter again and have found a bank with great conditions. Thinking anything other than positive drives you crazy at this time!

I would draw the checking account and credit card separately and not from the same bank. Because if the bank account changes, it can also happen that the KK ceases to exist.

And 40 euro for a KK? The one from Amazon is cheaper (20 euro / year for non-prime customers) and there's still cashback there. However, it also has a 1.75% foreign currency fee.

I'm with Comdirect, which is also part of Commerzbank. And if you didn't have their CC, then you wouldn't have any problems with your bank either. How do you now know how the service is from the DBK?

You should definitely complain (in writing), but change immediately without giving them the chance to clarify, no. I would also be interested in their definition of foreign currency fees if there was no change at all.

Yes, 40 euro for the credit card.

I called again and had a competent lady on the line. She told me that PayPal passed the country code through. So if, for example, I top up my Telekom card on the Internet and pay via PayPal and that comes from the Telekom side, it is debited from NL. When I buy something on Google, from Ireland. And the Twitch subscriptions from the USA. And when calculating the foreign currency fee, Commerzbank does not look at the currency in which it was debited, but rather which country code is available. If it is outside the € area, i.e. England, USA or other non € countries, the 1.75% foreign currency fee is due. When asked why all the other banks don't do this and why they do it this way with online sales, they just said that it was so, and that it was legal.

I don't think that's legal, otherwise everyone would have to pay something like that at every bank with their VISA / MC when shopping.

Comdirect was once great. Since Commerzbank has wanted to take over, I believe that they will simply copy the Commerzbank conditions 1 to 1 or at least introduce significantly worse conditions. And when you read on the Internet that Comdirect and Commerzbank like to cancel accounts without warning and without any apparent reason.

Will move away from this bank. To the DKB. Contrary to your recommendation, I will have both there. If I cancel that, I'll just have to look for a new credit card, that's the way it is.

Commerzbank is just expensive, the current account is the only useful product. Credit card in gray costs 40 euro and has such customer-unfriendly conditions, even the golden and black ones have a 1.75% foreign currency fee and are extremely expensive.
Depot is also unusable (too expensive), I have mine at Smartbroker. Overdraft facility is also too expensive at almost 10% when you see that DKB and co. Usually don't take more than 7%, anyway.
No wonder they make so little profit. The young all go to ING, Trade Republic Smartbroker DKB and what do I know, and even the old ones are slowly waking up.

Well, as I said, I will refrain from Commerzbank. The trust in this bank is destroyed if you take such, in my opinion illegal, fees for € payments with PayPal. I hope somebody defends himself against it with a lawsuit etc.
They will definitely make a few € a month with it, considering how many shops are not debiting from DE.
And the Curve card, which serves as a pre-card, supposedly doesn't help with the CoBa either. A flat rate of 1.75% is due, because Curve always debits from Great Britain and I have pounds

Would like to doubt that it is legal to charge foreign currency fees when there was no exchange. And if that is normal for them, it means that they do it for all customers who also fall into this pattern. Getting money into such dubious practices immediately makes me suspicious.

Please report that to a consumer center.

I also have to wait and see what happens to comdirect. I wasn't happy that Commerzbank did it. First of all, everything should stay that way. Let's see for how long.

Thanks for the feedback, it was interesting to read.

Curve changes itself to euro. But it doesn't matter at Commerzbank anyway if the country doesn't have a euro xD

With Curve it is stupid if you have to withdraw money it is a huge effort. In the beginning I often used it until a discounter took the money from me, but the cash register didn't register it and I had to pay in cash. The branch management said I should let the KK book it back. My KK behind Curve was the Barclay, which would have booked it back, but it would have gone down from Curve and the Curve Support said I should clarify this with the dealer, they probably have no help for such a scenario. I haven't used the card since then. I don't care. I hate wasting time on this, chasing after money.

I'll report that to the consumer advice center on Monday. Comdirect was or is still one of the best banks, even if they have such rip-off exchange rates with a 1.75% fee.

And in your experience, I definitely don't get a curve, I don't want to mess with an English payment service (or an English bank?) When I need chargeback (fraud or something)

I hope that it will not also be introduced at the Comdirect. But I appreciate the Comdirect customers as more price-sensitive and generally smarter than many Commerzbank customers who believe what their advisor says.
Probably then all the magazines would turn on and that would backfire. So I don't think they'll do that.

1.75% foreign currency fee is not a rip off. A rip-off is when they charge it even though it was not used.

The value is also quite common, but there are banks that take more, so I wonder why most of them get by with 1.75% and others take more.